
The mysterious Word Master, Plato the younger!
(Seriously? I asked him what the title of this post should be. He said THAT. OR, if I’d rather: “If you’re working hard you might be heading the wrong way.” He is so bloomin’ incorrigible!)
Ok, so you all know me. I’m a Seeker at heart. I think I was born that way since I’ve had “wanderlust of the soul” all my life. Because of that, Plato (the younger, from over at Plato’s Groove) and I have had some interesting and informative discussions in the past about things of the heart and soul. This morning we had another one…
We got off on the subject of blogs and what he feels his is about. He said: “I was thinking the blog is kind of a description of the death of my ego. Or maybe an awakening of a type. Especially those (poems) which deal with the need for solitude and the grief and pain involved. The raw grief needs to be understood as normal. I think we have to experience utter aloneness at some point in order to begin to know ourselves separate from our ego.” I haven’t done my post for this week’s Sandbox, but I can tell you loneliness is a problem for me. I’m not sure about aloneness. That’s something different. He went on to say, “I think we try to get to the sweet beautiful part (of our inner selves?) that makes sense before breathing the ugly unknowing of being undone.
“Just been thinking lately that the times when we feel weak or lost or a failure is actually the very path we have been seeking but don’t recognize it for what it is. What we do so much is try to rearrange the same stuff differently. Maybe its only when that stuff completely fails that the new can come.” I asked him how you know when THAT happens? Besides never getting out of bed! I felt like it would put me in free fall. Then what do I do? “Nothing. Just sit. The doing and thinking and figuring out is motion and flailing about from fear. When everything we thought we were is recognized as temporary and passing away, we begin to discover we are much more. Its about losing control or the illusion of it we have hidden behind. Its not something we do. Its done, it happens.”
Needless to say that idea made me a bit nervous. But he explained it like this: “Got to do the first thing first. That’s like an acorn fretting about making new acorns before it is a sprout. So they never put down roots and grow. The growing and rebuilding is in the hands of the creator not the seed. The seed must first die in order to become an oak tree. Until then it remains an acorn with potential of becoming an oak, wishing to and writing about what it might be like. When it dies it becomes what it always was. It does not figure it out. In a dream of falling it will never be resolved till you let yourself hit the ground. You can’t rebuild till the ego or old is destroyed. Fear is ego rebuilding, is mechanical and ego. The soul is organic and is not built. It grows and unfolds according to its nature.”
We went on to discuss the part reasoning plays in our remaining where we are in our old habits. “Reason won’t do it because it lacks all the information about us. Reason was used to establish our defenses. One can be very logical and schizophrenic because some of the foundational assumptions are false.
“I used to think I knew a lot but I am gradually unlearning it. I think we need lots of meaningful humans. But that is the trick. What is meaningful and what is not? So many of our relationships are not meaningful on deeper levels. They are fear ‘need’ based almost addictions. I think we project our needs onto people and sort them out based on whether they meet one of them or not. If I need somebody then I will also need to control them and protect my supply. The romance is internal the Beloved is within. I have begun finding some new contentment within me that is not dependent on anyone. And when I am less needy I am more free to actually see another for who they are not who I need them to be. If I never see them as separate from my needs then all I am seeing is what I am projecting onto them. I end up just loving myself. I understand some better about the Soul and the romance in my writing. For the most part I truly was writing to She who is me.
“Most relationships are to some degree an illusion anyway. We remain solitary and hidden behind our defenses unsure and unaware sometimes of who we are, what we desire, why we are here. If I don’t know me how could someone else know me? If they don’t know me how could they truly love me? We study other people from behind our walls seeking glimpses of them from behind theirs. We spend tons of emotional energy and time studying others many times cause we need them not to hurt us, or use us, or leave us. I think we have it backwards. The one I need to know best is me. I don’t think it ultimately matters whether we have people in out lives or not if our relationship with ourselves is out of whack all our other relationships will be too.
“I don’t know how it will be for you but those little insights or realizations will come at times when we are still and not engaged in the addictive trying to figure everything out mode. They come slowly and quietly and unannounced. Those small seemingly simple things are what we need to reconnect with the self or soul or god. Our ego seeks out the grand things or the ‘right’ clever answer when actually we have known the truth all along. Recognizing and accepting it is the thing. It feels too easy, too simple to be the way when we are habituated to the business and fretting and effort of our false sense of self. For me I am trying to just become better at recognizing when I am fretting and simply breathing in response. The old way would have been to subject it all to analyzing it to death. Which only left me more anxious and powerless because I was moving away from the source of healing which is stillness and simply to breathe.”
Well, he just described me in that last paragraph. I over-analyze everything in my life. And he’s right, it does leave me feeling more anxious and powerless because I can’t control anything in my life!
I just thought this was an interesting discussion this morning and wondered if anyone else would find it so. If you do, don’t be shy. Leave your comments and maybe something interesting will turn up! (And, btw, I DO have Plato’s permission to quote him.)
Wow. He is absolutely right in that the quiet brings it to the forefront. I have grown by leaps and bounds in the last two years by trying to let ego step back a bit in all my relationships. I don’t seem to grow without adversity. I need pain to propel me forward or maybe more within myself. I was getting too old/tired to keep running and am glad to finally feel that peace and acceptance. Plato articulates it far better than I ever could, but it ties in with my accepting the pain post, kinda. That was my moment of realization. And I’m also A-OK with me, myself and I. Not sure if this is a lifetime choice, but I am pretty selective of who I share my time with now.
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Wow… When I hear you deep thinkers talk about this stuff I am just in over my head.
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Pearls of wisdom from Plato the Younger. It all resonates. The steps for me – stillness, leap of faith, trust, believe, let it go/ release, transmute…’Let it go, and let God’ 🙂
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I think I’d better write that down! 🙂
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Cheryl, don’t ever be scared of being alone, you will always have someone there for you. David said the other week he was worried that I would be lonely in San Francisco, I told Him I would not then he added he was worried because I would be all alone and do you know that does not bother me, some people scare me but being on my own no its fine. So don’t be scared of that. You are fine the way you are, you are just making more worries for yourself.
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Love Plato’s (the younger) take on things…..I look at it this way, there is no one size fits all answer to this or any other question really….we’re all different as is our journeys….as I said in my blog…I did know loneliness..I was hollow and empty, going through the motions……….
as for being Alone..I’m not frightened of it, but I’ve told Jim he needs to live forever cause I love having him around ❤️☺️
The most meaningful relationship I needed to have was with myself….and I feel as though I’ve made great strides in that department…….the journey/adventure continues…….
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Boy, I really see that with you. You’re working at it so hard. You’re like a poster child for that process up there!!! 😉 ❤
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Why Thank You C!!! ☺️
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Wow that was quite the conversation you and Plato (the younger one ) had.
I love to be around people, I enjoy being a peopke watcher. I am and always have been curious about others. How they feel, what they think….I wriunknoies about what I think ir imagine their luves are. I have always had an active imagination …I would go easter egg hunting in the winter just to see what I would find, maybe a treasure real or imagined.
I can feel alone in a large crowd or even lonely depending on my own feelings at the time.
I have been feeling lonely lately but know why that is. I am waiting for darn medical tests to be done and come back so I can take a trip to see my family. So it is the waiting that I am allowing to make me feel lonely. The unknown is controlling me even as I fight to JUST BREATHE and knowing I need to Just relax and let it play out. I struggle against it as I know I shoukd not SO I FEEL LONELY even when not alone but THAT IS PART OF MY JOURNEY . Well I did not plan to share all this today but I thank you Cheryl and Plato for giving me the opportunity to share that. Because now that I have released that to the universe it feels lighter.
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You sound like you know yourself pretty well, Donna. I know it’s not been easy for you up there so far away from family. Personally I think it’s important that we share our feelings about what weighs on us. I’m so glad you felt like you could do that here. I know how hard you work to keep busy! You’re constantly working at your blog and making artsy-craftsy things, new recipes. You are one busy woman. But just being busy doesn’t help a lot of those feelings dissipate, does it. Here, girlfriend! {{{{{Donna}}}}} You needed that. ❤
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Thank you for the hugs I did need that and you are right busy work dies not always help
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Oops does not dies typo oopsy
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Sorry if this offends, but I think there is perhaps too much diagnosing. There is nothing wrong with being a Loner, wanting to be alone as I have so often said Cheryl, does not mean you are lonely. There are people who need to have others around perhaps like a safety blanket then there are people like me that prefer their own company, I know it has been said about me “well she is odd or rude or stuck up”. They don’t know me and have no right to judge, I cope with what I have gone through in life by being on my own, I am too trusting and get hurt so I prefer to just have my own company. I love being with my Sons, but they know when I just want to be on my own.
One can be in a crowd yet be alone, does not make us sad. We are all different and should respect that. Perhaps when one comes from troubled backgrounds we come to terms with it all and cope with life the only way, solitude/being a loner. Accept what you are be happy with yourself, stop worrying about what you think you should be. It has taken me most of my life to accept this is the real me, I have found myself and am happy and most of all I like myself and am not the “wicked little bitch” my mother would call me whilst whipping me. Just be yourself Cheryl. Find yourself in your writing. Writing for me since I started in the 1960s has been a “close friend”.
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I thought perhaps some might think the post was about being alone or lonely, since that’s the way it started. But actually what it blossomed into was more along the lines of learning to love yourself. In fact, if we can’t love ourselves, then how can we love each other? I think the most important thing I got from it was this part:
So many of our relationships are not meaningful on deeper levels. They are fear ‘need’ based almost addictions. I think we project our needs onto people and sort them out based on whether they meet one of them or not. If I need somebody then I will also need to control them and protect my supply. The romance is internal the Beloved is within… And when I am less needy I am more free to actually see another for who they are not who I need them to be.
That really spoke to me because I think I do that a lot.
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I am not really into all the analysing everything, but if you are saying we form relationships because we need that person to sort us out perhaps you are right, perhaps the person we meet and want to be with we are not in love with to begin with, we just need them. I do know David WAS NOT a Father figure to me, I see him now as a means of me escaping the cage I was in, of course what happened he put me back into that cage. Did I love him, Yes I did, did he love me NO he did not. I had a lot of love to give it felt it was always being rejected. In my case I did not see my marriage for what it was, I believed we were happy, I see it now as a waste. Do we want to be loved Yes, we want to be held and to hold. Do some of us love too much Yes. I don’t know what all the answers are, I guess we just get into these situations. That’s why for me I prefer my solitude, I don’t have to be rejected anymore. Good luck with trying to unravel it all.
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I think that’s a really good example, Anna. There was a little bit of that when Drollery and I got married, too. Sometimes I think, for me, I people my world with tons of people because one of my biggest fears is of being alone. Not lonely. That’s different. But alone frightens me. So the more people the merrier. And then I find myself exhausted from trying to keep up with it all. Poor Plato! When I found myself someone who understood my quirkiness I latched right onto him. Jumped around his ankles like a little yappy puppy! I was hoping there was a part of me he could help me fix. Our conversation this morning was very enlightening for me.
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Well I love that. Plato’s blog is so good. I love his music, poetry and voice. He is such a great guy. That conversation was so deep and the observations perceptive. I like things that trigger thoughts. Plato always does that.
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Well if you have anything you want to add or share, please do come back by and have a go at it! 🙂 We’d love to get a discussion going.
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